Associating with Like-minded Devotees

Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta 2.22.131 | February 25, 2014 |

English; Nanda Gokulam, Andhra Pradesh, India

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Related Lectures

A Society Made of Brahmanas

October 31, 2011 |

Question: I am currently listening to your lecture "Some Concerns About ISKCON." I also heard a lecture recently from my spritual master HH Tamal Krishna Goswami. He said, "originally, Srila Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to consist solely of brahmacaris and sannyasis, but then Jadurani came, what was Srila Prabhupada to do? He couldn't reject her."… Expand>

Question:

I am currently listening to your lecture "Some Concerns About ISKCON." I also heard a lecture recently from my spritual master HH Tamal Krishna Goswami. He said, "originally, Srila Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to consist solely of brahmacaris and sannyasis, but then Jadurani came, what was Srila Prabhupada to do? He couldn't reject her."

It seems that since we do not discriminate who joins ISKCON in terms of their varna or ashram, ISKCON will continue to face these sorts of issues (i.e. Ksatriya Initiative).

My question: Although I understand that we are ultimately only concerned with becoming Vaishnavas, but do you forsee that ISKCON as a society will gradually evolve into strictly a brahminical body as Srila Prabhupada wanted or will the brahminical class be forced to create a seperate body to offer guidance to society? Thank you for maintaining the standard. 

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English;

Should Devotees Vote in the Election?

April 20, 2014 |

Question: We understand from the teachings of Your Holiness that any activity other than Krishna consciousness is a waste of time. Considering this, I was under the impression that participating in voting for elections is also a waste of time because the process of democracy is not according to sastras and the leaders are not Krishna conscious.… Expand>

Question:

We understand from the teachings of Your Holiness that any activity other than Krishna consciousness is a waste of time. Considering this, I was under the impression that participating in voting for elections is also a waste of time because the process of democracy is not according to sastras and the leaders are not Krishna conscious. But sometimes devotees state that there is some political party who if not promoting Krishna consciousness at least protect people from those who are trying to destroy vedic culture. So they opine that we must not waste our vote, else someone may wrongly utilize it and promote parties that encourage cow slaughter. Do we need to consider these points? Please guide me regarding this.

Answer by HH Bhakti Vikāśa Swami:

Well, it’s not actually my teaching, but it’s teaching of śāstra. Ultimately it’s waste of time.

I’m just gonna read some quotes from Śrīla Prabhupāda:

Prabhupāda: No, the real is that all rogues are in the government.

Dr. Patel: Yes, that is the right thing. Not only rogues, but they are...

Prabhupāda: So why don't you, if you are actually serious, why don't you make propaganda in the country that "Please do not give vote to the rogues"? Don't mention any party. "If you want to be happy, then don't give vote to the rogues." And who is a rogue? The illicit-sex hunters, the intoxicants and the meat-eaters and the gamblers. These are rogues.

Dr. Patel: They are all there in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't mention any. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it is impartial. And actually, if they test that "Whether this man I am voting, he is free from all these sinful activities?" then, you see, the whole face of the Indian government will change.”
(Morning Walk – Bombay, April 14, 1976)

In this regard I’ll cite an anecdote that was told to me by a journalist, some years ago. He told me that he had spoken to Giani Zail Singh. He was the president of India.

So, this journalist told me that he said to Giani Zail Singh that he made some suggestion for improvement of India, and Giani Zail Singh said: “No, no, no, no! Nothing will work. I’ll tell you, the only way you can have any benefit for this country is if you line up all the politicians and shoot them all.”

This journalist told him: “I’ll quote you on that.”
Giani Zail Singh said; “You can if you like. I’ll deny it.”
Interesting anecdote. It was “The Hindu” journalist that told me this.

“The democracy is a farce. At least, I do not like it. Because so many rascals, simply by getting votes, go to the government, and what do they know how to rule over? Therefore, at the present moment, all over the world there is no good government. There is no good government.” (Lectures, Bhagavad-gītā 1.28-29, London, July 22, 1973)

After two days Śrīla Prabhupāda said this, on another lecture:
“We don’t very much like this so-called democracy. What is the value of this democracy? All fools and rascals. They vote for another fool and rascal and he becomes prime minister, or this or that. That is not good for the people. We are not for this so-called democracy because they are not trained.” (Lecture in London, 24 July 1973)

“Nowadays, unqualified men have taken the presidential post. And although they may pose themselves as very religious, they are simply rascals. Why? Because under their noses thousands of cows are being killed, while they collect a good salary. Any leader who is at all religious should resign his post in protest if cow slaughter goes on under his rule. Since people do not know that these administrators are rascals, they are suffering. And the people are also rascals because they are voting for these bigger rascals.” (JSD 7: Plato: Goodness and Government)

“Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less than animal man. We are all creatures of material nature.” (Room Conversations, July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach)

So, Śrīla Prabhupāda was clearly not in favour of democracy, and he pointed that the leaders are all rogues.

In other place he said we should vote for Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders, that we should preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then people can vote for Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders.
He also approved, for some time, devotees in America making a political party named “In God We Trust Party” which was not expected to win elections or such thing, but it was a platform for preaching. Because there is some law if you are standing for the election then media have to give you some coverage and this and that. Although Śrīla Prabhupāda suspended it after short time.

SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY OF DEVOTEES TO VOTE OR TO ESTABLISH VARṆĀŚRAMA?
So, if we vote will cow killing stop? No! Śrīla Prabhupāda said we shouldn’t . If cow killing is going on, any leader should resign.

Of course, the point is made that some party (Well you can guess who. Śrīla Prabhupāda said: Don’t mention any name.) seems to be more favourable toward sanātana-dharma than some other party. 
In a sense, this is a wrong question. Should we vote or not? The point have been made- is social responsibility of devotees to vote. This idea, that it is a social responsibility to vote, that does not come from śāstra. That’s an idea that has been cooked up along with democracy.

Śrīla Prabhupāda’s social program was to establish varṇāśrama. What are we doing about that? That should be our real question. Our real social responsibility is to show a better kind of a society.

DEMON-CRAZY DEMOCRACY
So, you can vote if you like for a party that may be in the middle of building factories, and approving abortions. They may do something to stop cow slaughter, that’s good in the middle of all the corruption. They may do something for the cause of sanātana-dharma, but our real program should be to establish varṇāśrama dharma according to guna and karma, not according to janma. That’s Śrīla Prabhupāda’s social welfare program.
So, seeing these devotees saying, it’s just confirmed to me that our movement has lost it, or not taken the social direction that Śrīla Prabhupāda gave us. Because this kind of talk doesn’t come from śāstra or ācāryas. It comes from modern materialistic society.
So, if you want you can vote. I’ve never voted in my life. Well, I’ve voted in ISKCON meetings, not for any governmental person. If you vote and that person comes in and approves cow slaughter, you have to take some sinful reaction for that. You have to consider that also. You are also responsible.

Definitely those who are sadhus…why should they participate in this voting. The leaders should come to us for guidance. We are long away from that. They are setting the agenda, and we are giving a vote. But we should be giving the agenda and they should be coming to us for guidance.
So, as Śrīla Prabhupāda said, I’m not much in favour for democracy. We should be preaching that this is demon crazy. It’s a very complex situation in a whole world. If you say one party is better than another it may be, but the whole world situation is so bad we can’t expect any radical improvement from any party coming over another. But we can expect that one party may be less inclined towards sanātana-dharma and all that it stands for.

QUESTIONS ON COW SLAUGHTER
As I’ve said on another occasion, if there is industrial economy than cows has to be killed because everything is economic. So, cows are in economic unite, too. You cannot keep cows unless you can kill them. That’s the way it is economically. Otherwise it becomes a burden to you. There are no grazing lands where cows are taken for graze. So, old cows-it doesn’t matter to keep them when there is grazing land.
But, in modern society it’s all economic. You have to feed the cow with grass, you have to pay or grow. And cow slaughter will go on as long as this industrial society goes on.
So, to promote industry and in the same time to promote cow protection is not going to work. These two things go together: industry and cow slaughter.

And also all questions on cow slaughter. That’s if cow slaughter has to be stopped in this country at this point…It could have been stopped in 1947 presumably. It was presumed that it would be stopped, but it wasn’t, thanks to Mahatma Gandhi. It could’ve been done at that time. Now, it’s much more difficult.

But if it’s to be done, it has to be done with the acquaintances of the large minority who are very aggressive wanting to eat cow’s meat. So, we have to preach to large minority, to convince them that this is not good. We have to preach to Hindus also, who are after eating beefs.

HOW TO BRING KṚṢṆA CONSCIOUSNESS IN GOVERNMENT?
Some years ago I met a Godbrother of mine who lived in Iran for many years during the Iranian revolution. Somehow or other he stayed there as Irish citizen. Ireland has been always considered as non threatening country, not like Great Britain or Northern America. So, he stayed there for many years, teaching English or something like that. He told me his perception. Of course he didn’t travel all over Iran and spoke to different kinds of people, but his perception was that many people didn’t like Islamic law. They were forced to do it. But they were not happy with it. They’ve wanted the life of, more open and free, so they can enjoy themselves like this.

So, how to bring Kṛṣṇa consciousness in government? We have to convince people. Simply by force it’s not going to work. Of course, we are absolutely not near the Kṛṣṇa consciousness government , but I was thinking about it as Śrīla Prabhupāda was.

The same is with cow slaughter when there is a large aggressive minority who are in favour of that. If we try to stop it by force it may lead to lot of human slaughter also. That should be considered. It’s a very delicate question. Definitely in Hyderabad, for instance, there is a whole large area which react very aggressively. I mean they do, already. If they try to stop cow slaughter…

CONCLUSION
So, I’m not giving here any clear answers because these kind of answers you have to discuss in details. It’s very complex situation. Cow slaughter should be stopped, yes! How to go about it, that we have to consider.

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Question: I am going through Srila Prabhupada's books, letters etc. and trying to properly understand His Divine Grace's attitude to 'welfare' activities, especially, hospitals, schools and feeding the poor. I came across a quote below and I would like to understand it properly as I thought of it as a potential quote for misinterpretation for presenting the idea that Srila Prabhupada… Expand>

Question:

I am going through Srila Prabhupada's books, letters etc. and trying to properly understand His Divine Grace's attitude to 'welfare' activities, especially, hospitals, schools and feeding the poor. I came across a quote below and I would like to understand it properly as I thought of it as a potential quote for misinterpretation for presenting the idea that Srila Prabhupada wanted welfare activities;

"We may approach our government leaders with our simple formula and show to them by the practical result that we are accomplishing the reform work that they are trying to do by spending millions of dollars but not very successfully. We, on the other hand, are rescuing the most fallen members of society among the young people and giving them new life of spiritual or highly desirable qualities, such as honesty, cleanliness, truthfulness, morality, like that. Now you approach the government leaders and convince them in this way, and that will be the greatest achievement. They have got so much money for spending for human welfare activities, and practically we are demonstrating that they have given us foodstuffs in India and we are distributing them daily to not less than 500 men, and if they would give us more we could also increase more and more. Your government has got inclination to assist the unfortunate people of the world, and that is very nice idea, now they should understand also that we are very much anxious and capable to assist them in their great and noble endeavour by rendering our services amongst the unfortunate citizens. If they give us financial help in this matter of human welfare activities, we are prepared to save or rescue their entire population from the clutches of ruin and degradation of all sorts. As I think you have tried once before and you have met some important political leaders in your Washington, D.C., so I am requesting you especially should take up this task very seriously of convincing your nation's leaders to give us all cooperation, and we shall in turn volunteer our all services to help them. By our mutual combination I am certain that we can improve the entire humanity to the point of spiritual understanding and thus automatically eliminate the basis for wars, poverty, disease, inequality, insufficient supplies of foodstuffs, and so many other problems that plague our so-called civilized societies."

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Rupanuga  –  Los Angeles 1 July, 1970

My question is that I am trying to understand what Srila Prabhupada is trying to say here and my understanding is that he is trying to get the American, Indian and European governments to donate food stuffs and facilities so that they (ISKCON) can engage in their preaching activities en-mass  by holding massive sankirtan and preaching programs and then distributing huge quantities of Prasadam. I thought this opinion of the above supported by the following statements:

"We, on the other hand, are rescuing the most fallen members of society among the young people and giving them new life of spiritual or highly desirable qualities, such as honesty, cleanliness, truthfulness, morality, like that"

"If they give us financial help in this matter of human welfare activities, we are prepared to save or rescue their entire population from the clutches of ruin and degradation of all sorts"

"By our mutual combination I am certain that we can improve the entire humanity to the point of spiritual understanding and thus automatically eliminate the basis for wars, poverty, disease, inequality, insufficient supplies of foodstuffs, and so many other problems that plague our so-called civilized societies." [This would only be possible if everyone became Krishna conscious, so this statement probably supports the fact that Srila Prabhupada is asking for help and facilities for preaching Krishna consciousness and not for just distributing prasadam without any preaching]

1) Is my opinion correct about what I think Srila Prabhupada is trying to say in the above letter?

2) There is a statement above; "..and practically we are demonstrating that they have given us foodstuffs in India and we are distributing them daily to not less than 500 men, and if they would give us more we could also increase more and more." … This can be taken to mean that Srila Prabhupada wanted prasadam distribution. How are we to understand it? Or is it that Srila Prabhupada just wanted Prasadam distribution in some places eg. Mayapur. Or perhaps prasadam is being distributed but in the temples only as Srila Prabhupada wanted?

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