Disciple After Rejecting a Guru

ASK BVKS | December 6, 2011 |

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Question: I would like to ask for clarification of one subject, namely, Krishna's "assuming" different forms. In one of the classes that had been uploaded on the bvks.com you spoke about the Lord not "assuming" the form, as far as I remember, you made the point that these forms of the Lord do exist eternally and that… Expand>

Question:

I would like to ask for clarification of one subject, namely, Krishna's "assuming" different forms. In one of the classes that had been uploaded on the bvks.com you spoke about the Lord not "assuming" the form, as far as I remember, you made the point that these forms of the Lord do exist eternally and that the forms of the material world are the "copies" and not the other way round. You also made the point that the word "assume" should probably not be used in the verse.

Today we were listening to the class by Srila Prabhupada and he also spoke on the topic and this is what he said:

"So sometimes this earthly planet was thrown into the water, Garbhodaka-samudra, Garbhodaka Sea, and God took the form of a boar, having two tusks — because it was easier. Just like shovel, you take something like that. So He took the earth. So that is described: ksitir iha vipulatare tisthati tava… No. What is that? Dasana-sikhare? The, this is described in Jayadeva's prayer. Vasati dasana-sikhare dharani tava lagna. Vasati, "is resting"; vasati dasana-sikhare, "on the top of the tusk." Kesava dhrta- sukara-rupa jaya jagadisa hare. So He's yajnesa. It is not that He's… is shape was just like hog, but He's not hog. Don't misunderstand. His shape was a gigantic hog. You can just imagine what kind of hog He was. The shape was like hog, but He was resting the whole planet, earthly planet, on the tusk. Vasati dasana-sikhare dharani tava lagna sasini kalanka, kesava dhrta- sukara-rupa. Here it is stated, saukaram. Saukaram means like hog. Not that He's hog. He's yajnesa. He can take any shape. Just like here is, God has assumed the shape of a lion, half-lion, half-man. So He's all powerful, He can take any shape, any form, but He is not that form. That is for the time being. For the time being, He assumes so many forms. The real form is Krsna, the original form. Kesava dhrta-sukara, sukara-rupa or sukara-rupa. "My Lord Kesava, You have assumed this form." So there are many millions and millions of forms of God. According to time, necessity, circumstances, He assumes different forms. Because it is His business:

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham
[Bg. 4.7]

He appears as soon as there are discrepancies in the methodical way."

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.7 — Los Angeles, September 13, 1972

I remember discussing this very same point with Gokula Candra Prabhu when we were in Salem, and the conclusion was that these forms do exist eternally, but from the above statement by Srila Prabhupada it seems to be otherwise. Could you clarify that please so that I may understand this properly?

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You have made frequent contacts with acaryas of various Vaisnava sampradayas. I feel very inspired by your preaching in this area. Gaura Keshava Prabhu (a disciple of Prabhupada, who has a home at Sri Rangam) mentioned to me: "Before coming to the West, he (Srila Prabhupada) wrote to Visvambhara Goswami(his friend, Radha Ramana Temple Goswami and former Vrndavan mayor) that he wanted to start an organization wherein Vaisnavas from all sampradayas could cooperate to push on Krsna consciousness.Of course ultimately ISKCON was born out of this desire. We do not know exactly how inclusive or exclusive of other types of Vaisnavas and their philosophies and traditions ISKCON will eventual become."

I wanted to know if you envisage any form of strategic partnership among all the Vaisnava sampradayas, since at present, we just have issue-specific or individual-level contacts.

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Question:

As part of our plan to establish varnasrama projects, when the community gets bigger we will also try to install ksatriya kings. The main duty of ksatriyas is to curb adharma. So if someone in the community is posing as God, he should immediately be killed as shown by Krnsa when he killed Paundraka. But we also understand that Caitanya Mahaprabhu's policy was not to kill demons but the demoniac tendency. So should the King refrain from killing such people? This question can be expanded to include all types of death sentences- even those given to murderers.

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Question:

sarvārtha-sambhavodeho

janitaḥpoṣitoyataḥ

natayoryātinirveśaṁ

pitrormartyaḥśatāyuṣā

Translation: With one’s body one can acquire all goals of life, and it is one’s parents who give the body birth and sustenance. Therefore no mortal man can repay his debt to his parents, even if he serves them for a full lifetime of a hundred years. (S.B.10.45.5).

Questions:

1. Why does Krishna say here that one cannot repay his debt to his parents even if he serves them for a full lifetime of a hundred years when in S.B 11.5.4 Narada muni says to Vasudeva–“One who has taken shelter of Krishna’s lotus feet, is not indebted to demigods, great sages, ordinary living beings, relatives, friends, mankind or even one’s forefathers who have passed away.” So how are we to understand this statement and how should we take this comment in SB 10.45.5?

2. Is this comment applicable to only a Krishna conscious father and mother or a materialistic father & mother also?

 

ANSWER BY HH Bhakti Vikāsa Swami:

"All right. Karttik Kumar form Bangalore is quoting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 10.45.5, spoken by Kṛṣṇa.

sarvārtha-sambhavo deho
janitaḥ poṣito yataḥ
na tayor yāti nirveśaṁ
pitror martyaḥ śatāyuṣā

Translation: With one’s body one can acquire all goals of life, and it is one’s parents who give the body birth and sustenance. Therefore no mortal man can repay his debt to his parents, even if he serves them for a full lifetime of a hundred years.

So there’s that verse which Śrīla Prabhupāda quotes three times, I believe, in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Because Arjuna’s whole proposition was not to go against the family.

devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṝṇāṁ
na kiṅkaro nāyam ṛṇī ca rājan
sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ
gato mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam

O King, one who has given up all material duties and has taken full shelter of the lotus feet of Mukunda, who offers shelter to all, is not indebted to the demigods, great sages, ordinary living beings, relatives, friends, mankind or even one's forefathers who have passed away. Since all such classes of living entities are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, one who has surrendered to the Lord's service has no need to serve such persons separately. (SB 11.5.41.)

So this appears to be contradictory because Kṛṣṇa says you can’t repay your debt to your parents, even if you serve them for a full lifetime of a hundred years. But then Kṛṣṇa says: “If you take shelter of Me, then you are not indebted.”

Well, one statement is qualified by another. This is common – that (there is a) general truth, (and) there are exceptions. Sri Lankans are good people. OK, we can accept that as a general proposition. Well, this one is not good - some of them are not good. So it’s a general case, but it’s qualified.

Actually, one can repay the debts. One repays the debts to the parents by having children. That’s the understanding. So the children, they will offer pinda to the Pitris.

DEBT TO THE PARENTS
What is the debt to the parent? - That you were given a body by them. So you can’t exactly repay, but you create more bodies. So there is a way to repay, but the mood of this is that what you were given is so valuable that we feel we can’t repay. We shouldn’t think: “OK, I repaid them, and then leave them alone, forget them.” That’s the idea. Gratefulness should be there.

sarvārtha-sambhavo deho
Everything we want to do, that can be done through the body. If you don’t have a body, you can’t do anything. If you are a ghost, for instance. If you are born in a subhuman body, then one cannot achieve the goal of life. So therefore, the human form of life is very valuable. But, if we fully dedicate to Kṛṣṇa, then we become free from the ordinary method of repaying the debt to the parents because we actually benefit not only the parents but even previous generation and even forthcoming generations. Kṛṣṇa delivers them all.

So therefore, one is not a debtor if he takes full shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa takes care of all, the parents and everyone else. So the general case is that one cannot repay the debt to the parents. And of course, that’s very much part of Indian culture, especially in North India very well-known this story… What’s his name? Kumara Sampat, Sampat Kumar; what is it? Śravan Kumar. Very common picture to see him carrying, on his shoulder, the father and mother.

MATERIALISTIC PARENTS
So, question number two. In one sense it is more applicable to materialistic father and mother. Inasmuch as, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness you repay the debt. Of course, you shouldn’t think that: “Well, (it) doesn’t matter about my parents.” A child in Kṛṣṇa consciousness shouldn’t be neglectful of parents. But, (one) may also, if one is fully engaged in preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then (he) may not marry and look after the parents in old age. But it should be seen that someone looks after them - some arrangement is made - something is done. In Kṛṣṇa consciousness we shouldn’t take it as an excuse to neglect our parents."

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