Devotee: Swamiji, if all things here are a reflection of what is perfect in the spiritual world, then shouldn't hate and frustration and despair and prejudice also appear in the spiritual world?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee: Does it?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee: Then isn't that… Aren't they bad?

Prabhupada: But that frustration has no disappointment. [laughter] That is the beauty. Just like Lord Caitanya is manifesting that spiritual frustration. "Oh Krsna, I could not see You." He's jumping on the sea in frustration. But that frustration is the highest perfection of love. Yes. Everything is there. But without inebriety. You are very intelligent boy. I thank you. Yes. There is frustration, but not this frustration. That frustration enriches one's eagerness of love for Krsna. Everything is there, but without inebriety. Everything is there. Now see, Visnu? Of course, in Vaikuntha-jagat there is no violence. But Visnu is taking the symbol of violence. Otherwise what is the meaning of this disc and club? So when He wants to be violent, He comes here as Nrsimha-murti.

[laughter]

And He sends some of His devotees to play violence. That is Hiranyakasipu. Because there the devotees are so much in accord with Krsna and Visnu that there is no question of disagreement. But violence is when this disagreement, atheist. Therefore sometimes a devotee is deputed in this world to play as atheist, and Krsna comes to kill him. To teach these people that "If you become atheist, then here is disc and club for you." But it is not possible to be displayed in the Vaikuntha. Otherwise, if there is no the propensity of violence…

Just like there is sometimes mock fight. A father is fighting in mock with a small child, and he has become defeated. But there is pleasure. So anandamayo 'bhyasat [Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12]. The Lord is joyful. So there is joy in fighting also sometimes. So your question that everything is there, that is a fact.

(New York, April 11, 1969)