Prabhupada: One who is not God-conscious, one who does not know that he is not body, he is animal. That’s all. Maybe in different dress, in different… So you have to set up real human society in a small scale so people will see, “Yes.” Because man has got intelligence. Just like, although I am condemning the western mode of life, still, so many western young boys, they have come. I never came to speak to flatter you, that “Your western civilization is very nice.” I never said that. Why you are coming? I never came to flatter you, neither I never came to say, “Yes, there is no God.” I am speaking just opposite, everything opposite. “You are drunkard; no drink. You are illicit sex hunters; no illicit sex.” So I am just speaking opposite, from the beginning of my preaching. So why you are coming? So if you stick to your position, real human civilization, people will come, gradually. Because they have got the sense. When we say others are animals, demons, we don’t say whimsically, capriciously, no. On the basis of sound knowledge. Therefore our declaration is completely right. We are not mental speculators, that I say some gentleman, “You are animal.” No. I see, I know, that he is animal. Therefore I say. A man is running his motorcar, (makes sound) rarararara, and a dog is running. We don’t see any difference, although he is on the motorcar. We don’t find any difference. He is as good as the dog. Unnecessarily he is running. What is the meaning of running of the dog?

Dhananjaya: Actually the man is making more noise than the dog.

Prabhupada: That’s all. So we say another dog is running in a different way. That’s all. These are very strong words. People will be angry. But this is a fact.

Yogesvara: So here’s a practical problem. People would be interested to know our position on divorce. Here in Rome they just passed a divorce law.

Prabhupada: That is also animalism. Just like a dog having sex intercourse with another female dog, and another, another, another. It is also animalism. So that is your decision. They are animals, and different way they are coming to be naked animal, that’s all. The divorce is also dog’s business. Dog is having sex intercourse with this female dog and another, another, another, another. It is animalism, That’s all.

Yogesvara: But people are objecting that: If we cannot get divorced, then we are forced to live with each other even if we hate each other.”

Prabhupada: But hate each other, that’s all right. We say what is the use of your sexual intercourse? That is animalism. You avoid it. Our Vedic civilization is to avoid it. Therefore they remain brahmacari, naisthika-brahmacari, no sexual intercourse in the whole life. That is perfection.

Yogesvara: But that’s not possible for the mass of people.

Prabhupada: No, why not possible? We have got so many, just like Sukadeva Gosvami. He remained completely brahmacari, although naked he is. He is. He doesn’t require, and neither he is agitated. Just like when he was passing, the girls were taking bath. They did not take care. They knew that he is not at all affected by any woman. And when his father was going, they covered. So father inquired, Vyasadeva, a personality like Vyasadeva, said, “Why you covered? I am old man, and my young son he was passing naked.” They said that “He is paramahamsa. He has no agitation of the mind. But you are grhastha. You live with woman. You have got distinction, man and woman.” So this is civilization. What is the use of sex life? It is simply entanglement. Therefore, at the last stage, one is supposed to become sannyasi. What is sannyasi? Vanaprastha, sannyasi, brahmacari — no sex life. Out of the four different status of life, the brahmacari has no sex life, the vanaprastha has no sex life, the sannyasi has no sex life. Only the grhastha. That means it is prohibitory. It is allowed — it is simply concession to the person who cannot remain without sex life. It is simply a concession. Otherwise, according to Vedic civilization, there is no need of sex life. Because it is entanglement, simply entanglement. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham kanduyanena karayor iva duhkha-duhkham [SB 7.9.45]. The example has been given. There is itching between the two hands. That’s all. That means the itching disease is increased. This has been the description of sex life. Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah. Although behind the sex life there are so many troubles, but still the rascals do not cease. Either illicit sex or legal sex… Legal sex you beget children. There are so many troubles. You have to raise them nicely, you have to give them education, you must be situated nicely. That is the duty of father. Otherwise, he would go on, begetting like cats and dogs, no responsibility. Just like some of our students, immediately married and again, “Give me sannyasa.” What is this? Irresponsible, that’s all. Irresponsibility. So these things are not required at all. These things are not required. Bahu-duhkha-bhajah. After marrying they see it is very great responsibility. “Now let me take sannyasa.” That’s all. Why you marry? Because he finds that after marriage there are so many difficulties. So irresponsible man. So after there is difficulties; that’s a fact. So why should you go to the difficulty? Therefore the conclusion is the married life is not required. But if you cannot tolerate, all right, get this concession, live very gentlemanly. This is marriage. Otherwise for higher sense, higher elevation… High elevation, of course, one who is actually on the higher elevation, he is married or not married, it doesn’t matter. But on the whole, the sex life is not necessary.

Yogesvara: So these Italian women are complaining now that their husbands are abusing them, so why can they not get divorced?

Prabhupada: Why do you marry?

Yogesvara: Obviously, they wanted sex in the beginning, but they didn’t know it was going to be so much trouble.

Prabhupada: That is our point. Then why do you marry? Just begin Krsna
conscious, and you will find, without sex, you will be happy.

Yogesvara: But what do we advise such women?

Prabhupada: Whatever they, others women, they may take lesson from them that, “If these woman are suffering or these men are suffering, why should we marry?” There is a Bengali proverb, dekhe sekhe and tekhe sekhe (?). One who is intelligent, he can see what is happening, he becomes cautious. And one, when actually experienced, then he becomes cautious. Less intelligent. So if it is not good, why you are marrying? Why you are induced by sex life? Stop it by Krsna consciousness. If you devote yourself, the whole life, in Krsna consciousness you will not be agitated by any sex life. And that is yad-avadhi mama cetah krsna-padaravinde. If one is actually advanced in Krsna consciousness, he will deride, “Huh! Nonsense! What is this?” That is Krsna consciousness, advancement. The only remedy, prime remedy for all solution, is Krsna conscious. That we have to say. So answers are all right or not?

Yogesvara: No, very nice. (laughter)

Morning Walk — May 28, 1974, Rome